All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. For R12, its mineral oil. Hence, let us continue to fix it. I had a pair on my SAAB that seemed ok - but new ones ran 20% faster!Your best clue to airflow issues is a 60 mph test. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. and feeds it through an expansion valve. Thanks again. The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . Thomas Jefferson, Thanks,OK, I'm starting to feel a little better about it. 4 Stars & Up & Up; 3 Stars & Up & Up; 2 Stars & Up . The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. The expansion valve(Tx) is in the car at the inlet line to the evaporator with compressors you best get advice from an ac specialist shop as the differences could be the gas that it pumps some systems use R12 and others use R134a or later gas yes R1234yf Freon gas can be replaced by R134a; the newer systems were designed with this in mind so no, there will be no damage to the compressor but some time in . A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. Compressor. Electric fans do wear out. If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. Any suggestions, or do you need to know the hi/lo readings? and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. R134a vs R12 - What is the Differences? - Rx Mechanic Yep, definately not a meat locker. If liquid refrigerant were to exit the evaporator. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. . difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. El juny de 2017, el mateix grup va decidir crear un web deDoctor Who amb el mateix objectiu. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. I have a laser temp reader, and it says the temps going into the condensor are up to 160F - coming out it is always around 110 or so. This drop can affect energy consumption since the plant will operate for a longer period or a larger plant will have to be installed. So that indicates it is cooling well there doesn't it? How thermostatic expansion valves work | Danfoss You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. System has been working fine for a year. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. Expansion Valve Differences R12 vs R134 - Automotive Air Conditioning A good T/C, clamped to the line & insulated gives a repeatable measurement of the tube. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1983Make: MercedesModel: 240DEngine Size: 2.4Refrigerant Type: R12Ambient Temp: 90Pressure Low: 35Pressure High: ?Country of Origin: United States, Hi, this is my first post, so please take it easy on the noob. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. This may be the source of your oil confusion. Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. Jun 17, 2011. A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. You are indeed 20% out of the OEM spec for cooling. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. R12 can move more heat than r134 so when it isn't very hot and the system isn't maxed out you wont be able to tell the difference but when its 110 out and the inside is 140 R12 will cool the cabin temp faster. I am ordering new parts, and planning to convert my system to R-134a. The evap is hard to get at. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Yes, I don't trust the heater valve either. . difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve The exact amount will vary with each car. Hot coolant migrates up through the core by convection (is that the word? It didn't seem too dirty though - I don't think it is the problem, but I could be wrong. PDF COMPARISON OF Rl34a AND R12 REFRIGERANTS IN A VAPOUR - AIVC It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. Expansion valves are an active device, they regulate the flow of refrigerant to the evaporator depending on evaporator temperature. 3 ounces? Before landing on the debate of R134 vs R12 you should know that both R134a and R12 are AC refrigerants types used in refrigeration and air conditioning systems. George Bray on Wed August 31, 2005 5:03 PM I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. The cable is adjustable at the valve arm. Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. They can be mounted quite easy,and there is a mounting kit that helps to hang it. A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. Just leave it alone for now. Rich Membership Chairman Using R134a in an R12 system will cause the oil not to move with the refrigerant, causing a system failure and probably won't even cool the system well, if at all. How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. "Howdy, Folks!" The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. I could easily be over at least 2 - 3 ounces over on the oil. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. This can be very very expensive. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. Expansion Valve for R134a? | Team Chevelle You'll get marginally better performance out of the change as the expansion valve is matches the refrigerant characteristics. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? Thanks for the input. Can I use the one for the R-12? In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e.