It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. Using modified thinset on KERDI can be tricky and in some cases, it can cause issues. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. As fiber cement board is similar to regular cement board, it makes sense to choose the one that is cheaper or more readily available. Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Fiber cement board is a variation of cement board that is made from compressed cement and sand and reinforced with wood fibers throughout. Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. The Ditra uncoupling design is lightweight, durable, and minimizes the possibility of cracked tile and grout. Installation instructions vary depending on the type of Kerdi membrane being used, but typically the membrane is applied directly to a clean, dry plywood surface that is free from dust, dirt, and other debris. With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. Kerdi Membrane is a product of Schluter systems. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. RedGard On Hardibacker Board. Manufactured by Schluter Systems, Kerdi Board is a multifunctional tile underlayment and construction panel, that can also be implemented for forming bonded waterproof assemblies with tile coverings. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. Thanks Paul! The cement board core itself is not waterproof, but it can withstand water without falling apart. You absolutely need to include some sort of substrate (cement board, green board, regular drywall) with the Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing kit. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Good luck with your project. I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. #3 This is a DIY site. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. You can apply it on PVC, metal, slabs, walls, and floors. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. Hang the cement boar. Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. ;). It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. The Kerdi is essentially replacing the backerboard. I would fear leaks in all corners of this shower. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. Installation; As the GoBoard is very lightweight, it becomes easy to . Your email address will not be published. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. Gettin' a little delirious. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. Any recommendations? How do I connect these two faces together? It is also widely available and a relatively inexpensive option approximately $10 for a 3-foot by 5-foot sheet. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. Not to mention, its warrantied by Schluter, giving you the ultimate peace of mind. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros, surfer thanked Avanti Tile & Stone / Stonetech. Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Following the instructions for the product being used and ensuring that all of the necessary steps are followed will help to ensure a successful installation. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. Blocking should be constant across this area when openings are larger than your fist. However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. The thin-set mortar should be mixed to a fairly dry consistency and then spread on the surface with a 1/4 inch square notch trowel. Welcome to the site. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. the cost of the tile job. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. Though, each product comes with its own individual characteristics, and pros and cons. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Is this overkill? Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. Step 2: Determine the room's center. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. The shower is ready for tile. Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces. The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. This liquid waterproofing solution does more than keep water away, it also promotes tile adhesion and prevents cracking. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. Spacers are the next step. Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? If done according to manufacturers instructions, it will seal nicely. And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. 4. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. You'll know the RG is dry when it turns reallllly dark bright red as opposed to the pinkish color when applied. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. Think about movement. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. The 30-in. A mortar wall is better and can be customized easier. rev2023.3.3.43278. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Press the Kerdi Membrane into the Thinset Mortar with firm, even pressure to achieve full mortar coverage. Cement board is a mineral-based board, usually 30 inches by 60 inches, that is used as a lower, dimensionally stable surface for installing ceramic tile, porcelain tile, or stonework. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. I imagine we could share some good stories. You are wise to use a cement board. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. This product is available in 3/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" 3/4", 1" 1-1/2" and 2" thicknesses, allowing for a wide variety of installation options. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. I usually use Durock. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . New England. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. ", Signed,Never Hung Kerdi A Day In Her Life. If you are looking for a way to minimize height buildup and eliminate a large level difference at thresholds, a mat product is a good solution. Once the wall is prepped, use a primer that is compatible with the KERDI membrane so that it will properly adhere to the wall. When installing KERDI with . Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. I like to use a garden sprayer to keep the thirsty Kerdi wet. Please feel free to reach out to our Product Support Team at 1-800-992-6273 if you need anything. To waterproof Hardie board, you should choose a quality sealer that is designed for use on cement-based sidings. First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. I appreciate your help and your quick response. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. Such membranes typically come in a brush or a roller form and can help create a durable barrier against water infiltration. Find the website that's made specifically for you. A successful tile installation largely depends on the substrate that the tile is attached to. I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? But a mortar bed does have advantages. This will help protect the cement board from water damage, and is often a specific type of coating designed for use with cement boards. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. rev2023.3.3.43278. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Following the correct application of Kerdi membrane over cement board will ensure a successful waterproofing installation and lasting results for your tile project. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. Redgard is a similar product. Step 1: Measure the area. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. 1. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. What was the indicator that let you know that spritzing was not enough, and that you needed to 'sponge' the Hardi? What? Unlike cement boards, you can bend this material without it breaking. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? The colour is different. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. Re: Kerdi on shower curbs. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. Will use the Schluter Shower system. But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. 120 sq feet including the floor.